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Subject: Should we change the name for "Winnables"?


Date: Sat Aug 6 13:48:39 2011
User: free@last
Message:
I was thinking Kickyourassables.

Suggestions?

Date: Sun Aug 7 12:46:39 2011
User: Dr.Bombay
Message:
No excusables.

Date: Thu Jan 5 10:21:57 2023
User: outskirts
Message:
Cheat-ables

nod to Tony

😆😐🥺

Date: Thu Jan 5 10:26:51 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
That ^^^ works, but plain ol' "free cell lite" is pretty clear.

Date: Thu Jan 5 10:54:07 2023
User: outskirts
Message:
Clear as mud

Date: Thu Jan 5 15:04:29 2023
User: Punster
Message:
Instead of freecell lite, I suggest freecell smart, because you only lose the winnables when "you" make a mistake, not because a game is unwinnable. ;-)

Date: Thu Jan 5 15:44:33 2023
User: outskirts
Message:
Why would anyone want to play an unwinnable game? Why would anyone want an unwinnable game to crash their streak? Why would someone call the winnables freecell lite, when it's not any lighter? It's the same games, minus the ones you wouldn't win anyway, that you would just waste time on. So it's doing you s favor by giving you more time on the planet. That's heavy, not lite.

Date: Thu Jan 5 15:51:36 2023
User: Punster
Message:
outskirts, I agree with what you said AND the way you said it !!

Date: Thu Jan 5 16:04:11 2023
User: outskirts
Message:
Thanks Punster! I remember BW (before winnables) how horrible it was to lose a streak because of an unwinnable game! It was awful! It was the dark ages of freecell.com/net.

Date: Thu Jan 5 16:04:12 2023
User: outskirts
Message:
Thanks Punster! I remember BW (before winnables) how horrible it was to lose a streak because of an unwinnable game! It was awful! It was the dark ages of freecell.com/net.

Date: Thu Jan 5 16:09:08 2023
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:
But remember............it's "lite" because part of the difficulty of the game has been removed. Kinda anti-intuitive, to say the least, to imply that it's "smart" to play an easier game. One would think the 'smarter' players would want a more difficult challenge.

Date: Thu Jan 5 16:39:01 2023
User: ix
Message:
lite = longtime illusory truth effect

Date: Thu Jan 5 17:15:31 2023
User: kangaroo
Message:
I'm going to ruffle a few feathers here but I'm claiming to be the first to suggest this mode of playing way back in the noughties. If anyone can prove otherwise I'll retract my claim.

After it started I played 13x0 and got my 100-streak (under another name) and thought "so what" and kept playing until I lost a game through carelessness.

From then on I went back to the normal mode and like that a lot better. Last year I finally got a "proper" 100 streak and was excited!


Date: Thu Jan 5 17:57:30 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
If we had Bob Uecker (who'll be turning 89 in about 3 weeks) and his buddies on site (and I'm assuming we don't or he'd have joined in on the baseball discussions), he'd have us debating the "tastes great - less filling" controversy. Clearly it's less filling, as its easier chain of victories is less satisfying. Since I don't indulge myself, I'm not qualified to judge the taste.

Link: Does freecell lite taste great - or is it only less filling?

Date: Thu Jan 5 18:59:39 2023
User: Klepp
Message:
Cool...I think I saw Ray Nitzschke, Red Auerbach, and Billy Martin, among others there.

Date: Thu Jan 5 20:36:48 2023
User: Punster
Message:
Hey Kumquat..., it's not easier, they're the same games, except for the "unwinnables". Knowing that they are all winnable makes it all on YOU, not random bad luck. Hey Kumquat... maybe you should try something similar to playing regular Freecell, it's called Russian Roulette !!! And let me know how that turns out.

Date: Thu Jan 5 20:46:21 2023
User: BuzzClik
Message:
Nice sentiment, Punster. How the hell did you go from "winnables should be called 'freecell lite'" to "You should go kill yourself."

Sweet jeebus.

Date: Thu Jan 5 21:00:40 2023
User: btpfreecell
Message:
What did he say ?

Date: Thu Jan 5 21:32:24 2023
User: Punster
Message:
I didn't call it Freecell lite, I only referenced what Kumquat... said. Re-read above !

Date: Thu Jan 5 21:57:27 2023
User: BuzzClik
Message:
I read your post three times before responding. I could not believe what I was reading, but I wanted to be certain that I understood your meaning before questioning your motivations.

TN (who posts as Kumquat) was the one who called it freecell lite.

You are the one who suggested that he should try his hand at a suicide game. Not doubt, you thought it was funny. Perhaps you have no personal experience; maybe you have never known someone who took their own life. It is not a funny subject. (Sorry if I appear overly sensitive, but such things leave a permanent impression)

Date: Thu Jan 5 22:55:59 2023
User: Punster
Message:
It wasn't meant as a serious suggestion, it just doesn't make any sense to me that a person would choose regular over winnables, just for the reason of randomly getting an unwinnable game. And it's not right to call the winnables easier. They may seem easier but they are the SAME game as the regular games that are winnable. And I know that Kumquat... is TN. :-)

Date: Thu Jan 5 23:15:15 2023
User: BuzzClik
Message:
I understand. thx, Punster. It isn't your nature to be callous.

Date: Thu Jan 5 23:22:41 2023
User: ix
Message:
also, after a decade of relentless self righteous disparagement, one looks for new ways to say things. exasperation set in long ago.

Date: Fri Jan 6 00:46:25 2023
User: Kumquat-of-Conciliation
Message:
Punster...........(collective) "we" went over this in exquisite detail for the umpteenth time not long ago, and I thought I detected some movement in my direction. But we don't need to re-hash it all over again now. I'm not sure you've ever seen my point, and if that's the case, then you likely never will. And that's ok - I guess. Others have at least *seen* my point but still choose to differ in terms of what that means. And that's ok as well.
But............just as an exercise..........I would be curious to know if you think you could re-create my argument - so I'd at least know the basis of your disagreement.

And ix.........you're right. But yes, I think I've 'splained it as intricately and fully as possible - several times. So am I "exasperated"? No, that's too strong a word. "Disappointed" is closer. And you, on the other side of the coin.........must be exasperated at me not folding my hand. 😉

Date: Fri Jan 6 00:48:21 2023
User: redberet
Message:
Can you imagine going into a casino and asking where the winnable slot machines are?

Date: Fri Jan 6 01:02:06 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
^^^^^ 😄😄🤑😄😄 ^^^^^
Good one. 😄

Date: Fri Jan 6 01:16:12 2023
User: ix
Message:
can you imagine going to a baseball game and asking "is this a random loss game?."

Date: Fri Jan 6 02:45:13 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Well, depending on the vagaries of who's calling balls and strikes..........most of them may be. 🤷 Before winnables came along, those types of vagaries sorted themselves out over the long haul, which is why winning percentage was/is the best evaluator/separator. And the reciprocal thereof being the best way to represent that.

Date: Fri Jan 6 03:36:21 2023
User: Klepp
Message:
I want my winning percentage on the 9X1 to hit 70 (better than average)...I'm not terribly terribly far off, it may very well be in the cards for me by end of '23...Saturday gives more test...we'll see, it's an unforgiving variant, but at least I poorly plowed through the 6X5Ws on Wed...happy with podium...

Date: Fri Jan 6 08:00:29 2023
User: outskirts
Message:
Okay! For regular instead of winnables, I submit "freecell suicide". Because *that* makes sense!

Date: Fri Jan 6 08:31:45 2023
User: outskirts
Message:
Date: Fri Jan 6 00:48:21 2023
User: redberet
Message:
Can you imagine going into a casino and asking where the winnable slot machines are?

Date: Fri Jan 6 01:02:06 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
^^^^^ 😄😄🤑😄😄 ^^^^^
Good one. 😄



They are all winnable. But that's beside the point. The point is - apples and onions

Date: Fri Jan 6 11:43:05 2023
User: Punster
Message:
High Five outskirts !!! But don't say freecell "suicide"....maybe say freecell "heavy" !! :-)

Date: Fri Jan 6 12:32:47 2023
User: redberet
Message:
I believe penny slots paid 100%. How 'bout penny slots?

Date: Fri Jan 6 13:00:43 2023
User: redberet
Message:
the point is cherries and diamonds.

Date: Fri Jan 6 21:46:37 2023
User: Punster
Message:
Some people prefer to stay with regular freecell & some prefer winnable freecell, opinions differ I understand that and I don't have a problem with it, I just don't think winnable freecell should be called "lite".

Date: Fri Jan 6 22:08:47 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Ok, Punster - see if you can describe my position - my logic. If you can, and just disagree with what conclusions that implies, then ok. But I wonder if you see my reasoning. And it's not just me - many others here see it the same way I do.

Date: Fri Jan 6 23:23:18 2023
User: cellmate
Message:

i find it odd that TN and 'many others' have an obesession about the length of their streak yet an acceptance of a premature finish


Date: Fri Jan 6 23:37:40 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
??? When - just when - have I **ever** had an obsession about the length of any streak I've ever had??? That's nuts. 🥜 I don't even consider myself a "streaker". You're way, way off base on that.

Date: Sat Jan 7 00:11:40 2023
User: cellmate
Message:

so for TN its the size of his win %


Date: Sat Jan 7 00:43:09 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Historically that's what it's been, as I've noted over and over and over again. But in the last few years, since the database has become more and more corrupted, I just play - almost in a whimsical manner. Just for fun. Don't chase elo; don't go for streaks; don't try to climb the various lists. More and more I play whilst multi-tasking, which hurts my results a little - but that's ok. I'm just at a point in life where I've decided, largely because of the degradation of the database, concomitant with the cheating, of course, that these things have become less meaningful.

So, now, please direct us to where I ever had an obsession over *any* streak. Even when I rung up the 66 12x0s, there was hardly anything obsessive about that. You can go "look it up". It was fun, but that's all. Didn't begrudge james breaking that, either.

I don't mind debating these things, but it's not cool to misrepresent my positions, put words on my fingertips, etc. There's been a bit much of that the last couple of days here. Not throwing a hissy fit - 😤 - just sayin'.

Date: Sat Jan 7 01:29:03 2023
User: cellmate
Message:

as i said "so for TN its the size of his win %"


Date: Sat Jan 7 01:34:08 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
......*after* you (falsely) accused me of having an obsession about the length of some streak.

Date: Sat Jan 7 01:42:45 2023
User: cellmate
Message:

as i conceded and you seemed to have acknowledged in the first sentence of your 00:43:09 post


Date: Sat Jan 7 01:58:08 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Then why repeat it?

Date: Sat Jan 7 02:07:46 2023
User: cellmate
Message:

because you demanded this "So, now, please direct us to where I ever had an obsession over *any* streak. "


Date: Sat Jan 7 02:15:25 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
And? Where is that occasion? Re-stating what you already had doesn't get us there. But there is no such place, so I guess we can end this here

Date: Sat Jan 7 02:26:23 2023
User: cellmate
Message:

i find it odd that many have an obsession about the length of their streak yet have an acceptance of a premature finish


Date: Sat Jan 7 02:43:11 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
LOL. IF that were the case - and maybe it is for some - then you would have a (minor) point. But if this site had started with winning percentage for the lists, expressed as the reciprocal, these things would take care of themselves. In fact...........for quite a long time, one *could* order the results by both winning percentage, and reciprocal. I tried to get that adopted as default, to no avail, obviously.

And............"premature" is only applicable if one assumes one should win every game. As if someone's name was Tony. If one is playing the games 'like God intended', then since *everyone* would be losing some predictable, evening-out-over-time % of games, it would be fair for all. "Premature" would have no meaning. As is still the case for playing the regular universe. It's not "odd"; it's (arguably) normal - IF someone had such an obsession. Such was going on with the 11x1s, thus the impetus to weed out the unwinnables. If one wins 200 or so regular 11x1s, and then hits one of the few land mines, then one could be slightly upset. But it's also not like they didn't know those land mines were there. So again, "premature" is a construct of unrealistic expectations.

It's not "premature" to lose a 9x1 game in the SSC just started - because one should expect to lose some on a fairly regular basis. That's just gonna happen. Comes with the territory. If one doesn't like that scenario, then one doesn't play that variant.

Date: Sat Jan 7 03:04:20 2023
User: cellmate
Message:
i knew you couldn't stay quiet... God? harassing Tony? you never cease to meet our expectations

Date: Sat Jan 7 03:12:42 2023
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Yet again, calling out cheaters is not harassment. And *I* couldn't stay quiet? LOL again. And yet again further..........instead of addressing the issues, you deflect and change the subject. Unless you can offer up more, I'm done again - to quote you-know-who.

p.s. - I just lost a 9x1 game that is now 2/35. Is that a premature end? I would argue no; it just comes with the territory of 9x1. Yes, we need andaronjim to get it changed to about climate 8 or 9 - but that's a separate issue. ;)


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