Subject: discussion board policy changes

Date: Sun Jan 25 09:58:14 2009
User: Denny
Message:
So we're gonna try just doing rules of polite dinner conversation and we'll avoid politics and religion. I've provided links to other forums dedicated to those topics if you just gotta vent. We'll of course also keep it clean in general. mickyiw and olblue will keep an eye on things. I've asked for a light touch but there are certain things they'll whack immediately. In general this place has much better manners than most areas of the Internet so I doubt there will be problems. Lemme know what you think. Denny

Date: Sun Jan 25 10:03:03 2009
User: BuzzClik
Message:
How 'bout them 9x3's? woohoo!

Date: Sun Jan 25 10:56:41 2009
User: firenze
Message:
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." Denny said: >>Lemme know what you think.<< >>We'll of course also keep it clean in general. mickyiw and olblue will keep an eye on things. I've asked for a light touch but there are certain things they'll whack immediately.<< "there's the rub." Will mickyiw and olblue explain why "certain things" are whacked?

Date: Sun Jan 25 11:21:37 2009
User: d164280
Message:
Good call Denny. I've read some of the political threads and have been tempted to respond, yet I've learned over the years your not going to change the mind of someone who is "hardened"[my side is right about everything]. Thus any comment, even if 100% the truth, does not lead to contemplation and rethinking of ones' position, but instead is perceived as a hit which motivates the "hardened" to find something to hit back with. To bad, a lot can be learned from a discussion from varied viewpoints.

Date: Sun Jan 25 11:43:16 2009
User: Procrastes
Message:
I tried a couple of times to ask a game-related question under the old regime, and it was ignored - so this hasta be better. The question was what I should do to reinstate the ability to play a game again after I've lost - which happens occasionally... I used to have a double-headed arrow button for that purpose, but don't have it any more - how can I find a version of the game that gives me that button back? In case someone in the know wants to tell me directly, my email is stephenbrop@gmail.com.

Date: Sun Jan 25 11:44:27 2009
User: Jeff-theDude-Lebowski
Message:
...I wish more people would play Lucky 13...It's fun and frustrating at the same time....a combination of being smart and fortunate for any period of time is difficult. Worthy of an occasional obsenity.

Date: Sun Jan 25 11:46:08 2009
User: Denny
Message:
Hey, Pro, this is an example of when you probably oughta start a new thread with a title like "how do I replay a game?" In theory, this thread is more about reactions to my "policy" changes. But there's a button, if you hover your mouse over it it'll say "replay last game", just to the left of the Scores button. That should do what you want. Denny

Date: Sun Jan 25 11:55:34 2009
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Good call from me, too, Denny. Speaking only for myself, the burden of being right all the time was a burden (that's a joke, fwiw). Thank you for this site (and sight) and all your efforts.

Date: Sun Jan 25 12:13:08 2009
User: nug
Message:
Denny - What you did was clearly right; but we have to respect your right to make the rules, anyway. If you have to repeat the medicine every once in a while, so be it. I trust that the moderators shouldn't have too much to do: your action certainly made me reconsider some of my own activities here recently.

Date: Sun Jan 25 12:25:41 2009
User: Katzby
Message:
I agree--but I do hope, Denny, that you won't have to repeat that action often (or ever). I really missed my friends in here!

Date: Sun Jan 25 12:25:41 2009
User: Katzby
Message:
I agree--but I do hope, Denny, that you won't have to repeat that action often (or ever). I really missed my friends in here!

Date: Sun Jan 25 13:07:26 2009
User: mabb
Message:
Well, Denny I haven't felt naughtier since my carefree college days! ;) I do believe that politics has been discussed by Netcellers for as long as I can remember, or at least one side of it has. Denny himself began a political thread recently about Blagojevich. So I don't think it's entirely about the subject matter. What I think is relatively new is the amount of push-back from the "other" side, and the increasing tone of animosity. Push-back doesn't have to lead to rancor, and I think there have been some excellent "controversial" threads that haven't become rancorous. But unfortunately the nasty tone sneaks in too often, resulting in a level of "discourse" that is not conducive to the fun atmosphere Denny has in mind. I have to agree with that. For *years*, I read all the controversial threads at the DB, and never once jumped in. But somewhere in there came a tipping point for me, and once the ice was broken into the controversial territory, each post became easier than the one before it. I was probably deluding myself to think that I could keep to the high road 100% of the time, and FWIW, I did try. Currently though, I'm convinced more firmly than ever that I was far better off remaining silent about these matters, than speaking out. Whatever pleasure I might have felt in speaking my mind certainly wasn't worth spoiling the fun for everyone else by getting the DB closed. Although I did not contribute to the Inaugural discussion which was apparently the "last straw" (in fact I didn't even get to read it), I certainly have enough recent participation in the political threads that I cannot reasonably exclude myself from the list of perpetrators. And so, to the degree that I expressed my views irresponsibly and contributed to Denny's decision, I feel badly and I openly apologize to my friends here. Even without the new guidelines against politics or religion, I had already decided that I would not be going "there" anymore. It's just not worth it. At the end of the day, my views are not all that special or important that others should be detrimentally affected by my expression of them. Congratulations to the new moderators, and I hope to be one poster who doesn't complicate your job.

Date: Sun Jan 25 13:11:43 2009
User: hotnurse
Message:
I ditto that last sentence by mabb. KMc

Date: Sun Jan 25 13:16:34 2009
User: Gener
Message:
I agree with no politics or religion. Say, Denny - how is your Smart car doing? Anything to report? I read someplace that savings in gas as a result of improved mileage is offset by higher insurance premiums because the cars, being light weight, are subject to more severe damage in what might be classified as "minor accidents." Your comments? Gener

Date: Sun Jan 25 13:53:55 2009
User: jloan
Message:
I appreciate the change and the "watchdogs". I tried many times to join the discussion only to be frustrated by the direction it was taking, away from anything freecell related and ... well you know. Thanks Denny.

Date: Sun Jan 25 14:24:16 2009
User: Denny
Message:
I'm also testing a fix for Katzby's infamous ability to double post. Katzby--can you still double 'em up? Denny

Date: Sun Jan 25 14:25:19 2009
User: MrFixit
Message:
testing double posting from Mozilla.

Date: Sun Jan 25 14:25:56 2009
User: mickyiw
Message:
Denny, this 'fix' might be having a knock effect on peoples cards. Many people have came into chat saying they can't get any cards to appear in the windows version. mickyiw

Date: Sun Jan 25 14:34:15 2009
User: The_Longhorn
Message:
):D THREE CHEERS FOR DENNY! Hip, hip, HOORAY! Hip, hip, HOORAY! Hip, hip, HOORAY! ):o Moo.

Date: Sun Jan 25 14:58:40 2009
User: The_Longhorn
Message:
):) I just registered for Denny's recommended political site. If he doesn't mind, I'll recommend a few more. (If he does mind, I guess this post can be "whacked".) •www.freeconservatives.com ):o The name says it all. If you lean to the left, you're still welcome, but you'll have to mind your manners, & be prepared to provide FACTS to back up your claims, 'cuz opinions don't cut it. •www.womenforsarahpalin.net ):o Another conservative site. It's fairly new, so for now, traffic is slow. ):) And they don't even seem to mind that I'm backing Bobby Jindal. For now, anyway, since I could be persuaded to change in the next four years. •http://forums.catholic-convert.com/ ):o This one is for devout Catholics, & at least 95% of its members are. They allowed me in, even though I'm not Catholic, but I pretty much stick to their political forum, which leans slightly to the right, but is more moderate than the other two I've listed. ):) Anyway, I hope that helps, if anyone is interested in resuming their love of politics SOME PLACE ELSE. ):o Moo.

Date: Sun Jan 25 15:05:34 2009
User: Imhungry
Message:
Much thanks Denny! As a Freecell enthusiast/addict, it had become a disappointment to observe the general direction that this board was following. It had honestly begun to feel like I was at a trash dump sifting through the rubbish to find something of value (i.e., Freecell related posts). I can't realy imagine the thought that went into making the decision, considering the likelihood of blowback, sarcastic comments, thickheaded resistance, or unmitigated resistance. All I can hope for is a DB with more fruitful discourse related to topics that this site was designed to indulge. I call on the other players like myself who have watched from the sidelines to step up and help make this board more fun. Don't be afraid to post even if it's merely a call for help on a game that has had you stuck for an hour. I'll do my best to add some questions, comments, and advice where I feel it might provide benefit to others. Cheers!

Date: Sun Jan 25 15:29:37 2009
User: 59ford
Message:
I have not used this board. I think that you all have handled this issue very well!

Date: Sun Jan 25 16:35:56 2009
User: fishlady
Message:
About the game == I'm having the same problem mickyiw mentioned above, can't get cards in Windows version. Couldn't find anywhere to ask about it. ???

Date: Sun Jan 25 16:46:46 2009
User: firenze
Message:
I will take silence as a "no."

Date: Sun Jan 25 16:56:05 2009
User: nug
Message:
You'll probably have to find out by osmosis.

Date: Sun Jan 25 16:59:18 2009
User: riverside
Message:
good policy

Date: Sun Jan 25 17:00:39 2009
User: TNmountainman
Message:
I would think it will be obvious, at least to most, most of the time. But were I judging, I'd even whack Longhorn's advertisement above. I'm sure there will be gray areas.......

Date: Sun Jan 25 17:01:31 2009
User: j.t.k.74
Message:
I think whatever action you decside to take on your site is for the better of the site. I will continue to come to the site to play freecell as long as it is available whether the discussion is here or not. As always, it is your call.

Date: Sun Jan 25 17:11:26 2009
User: kenwa
Message:
Denny, I think its a good move, I had just chosen to ignore most of the threads before your actions so maybe I'll read more now :O) I think the debating is okay but the spitefulness factor needed to be addressed.

Date: Sun Jan 25 17:27:40 2009
User: Denny
Message:
Gov. Blagojevich isn't a political figure these days so much as just another celebrity staging a particularly interested self-destruction. Think Britney or Michael. I think we can still talk about Rob's out-of-touchness. Denny

Date: Sun Jan 25 17:36:58 2009
User: TNmountainman
Message:
Just as an example, would the mostly very civil discussion about Gaza be OK? I guess that's political in some ways, but more a historical and human interest scenario. And I agree with kenwa - the debating was fine; the "spitefulness" was not. (And I know I was not lily-white innocent of that myself.)

Date: Sun Jan 25 17:49:36 2009
User: EZ-Ed12-LAnseMI
Message:
No! No! No! It was not that long ago a bunch of you tried discussing Gaza. It was an insult fest. No politics means no politics. No religion means no religion. Gaza contains both elements. TN, I think you and julia, or you and mabb, could have a very civil discussion. But once some other folks enter the picture, the isults flow big time.

Date: Sun Jan 25 17:52:19 2009
User: dbc9
Message:
and that's what the moderators are for.

Date: Sun Jan 25 18:01:08 2009
User: GuyinSF
Message:
I support the new policy of "....no religion and no politics...". They often are fascinating topics, as long as there are ground rules agreed to in advance by all parties. I get enough discussion (with ground rules!) of both with family and friends. I come to this site for other reasons. BYW, I LOVE Free Cell.!

Date: Sun Jan 25 18:01:35 2009
User: Katzby
Message:
Sorry about the double post earlier--have no idea how that happened. Query Denny: If some want to discuss issues and can do so in a civil and courteous manner, would it be possible to allow those, but somehow "blank out" spiteful or malicious remarks? I'm asking because, as TN pointed out, the Gaza thread was very civil except for a few, and the discussion was thought-provoking and (overall) well written. Maybe some others would like the occasional *moderated* discussion?

Date: Sun Jan 25 18:20:32 2009
User: joeygray
Message:
I noticed when the board came back up that some threads had been entirely zapped. I just want to opine for the record that, in reference to one long-lasting thread in particular, thank heavens it's gone.

Date: Sun Jan 25 18:24:40 2009
User: nug
Message:
Agreed, joeygray; but I wonder why "Global Warming, UN Report" is still there.

Date: Sun Jan 25 18:35:54 2009
User: .EZ-Ed
Message:
Agreed here, too, Joey. May that thread rest in peace never to come back to life. I do wonder, though, if Longhorn feels he is being picked on. First, no politics or religion. Then this thread is axed. .wink Longhorn Gang

Date: Sun Jan 25 19:04:24 2009
User: Snowguy
Message:
I understand why you took this action, Denny. In fact, I had expressed my concern about the vitriolic and contentious turn some threads had taken. (I then stated that I was leaving a week and after checking back I would decide what to do.) I think the problem wasn't so much topics, as that some posters had taken to attacking others, personally. That was too much and it was escalating beyond control. it The problem was never the topic. One thing I always appreciated in here was that nearly any topic could be discussed. I still would like to see that. Another problem is identifying a "religious" or "political" topic. That will take more wisdom than Solomon. Let's examine "Give Him a Chance" for example. It was a plea for unity to improve our future, but it took an ugly turn. In fact, many threads can take a turn toward political. Would we then take down a perfectly fine 20-post thread because of a few follow-up posts? I think instead of trying to police *topics* we should instead police *behavior.* If a thread on *any* topic is concentrating solely on ideas, why not let it continue? But when somebody calls somebody else an idiot, then the hammer should come down. In fact, we could almost self-police (almost). By the way, we could have a nice thread going on almost *any* topic, and then somebody becomes insulting. I suggest we just lay down basic behavioral guidelines and then let this very diverse board continue. By the way, I claim victory in the "Last to Post" thread!

Date: Sun Jan 25 19:04:44 2009
User: FilthyMcNasty
Message:
It's a rare opportunity when the owner of a bulletin board invites comments about a decision to censor the postings. I'm sure as heck not going to pass up the chance. But, golly! The way the sycophants are all lined up you'd think that none of them ever posted something untoward. But I digress... Personally I don't get the change. People want to talk about religion and politics and sex and football and Oprah and cooking and their jobs and the weather and the economy and their kids and whatever else happens to cross their easily distracted minds. Most discussion boards using software developed in this millennium actually have forums for each of these subjects. It's freecell that brings us here, but we're friggin' human beings who think and worry about stuff other than playing cards. Do I think this is a good idea? Nope. The only time I was more disappointed was when I heard that they were forcing the Bourbon Street strippers to wear g-strings.

Date: Sun Jan 25 19:12:48 2009
User: dede
Message:
Well of course I agree with all that Don't want to rock the boat... And Snow I said exactly what you said on Hotel discussion board yesterday...... But lets not get too mundane a little controversy is good Just don't let your beliefs get in the way of seeing others and if you don't agree don't get nasty as simple as that I don't think that is a hard thing to do .... I think a lot should just chill and be happy okay enough of me Its Australia Day here So i better go outside and have glass of wine and relax ....

Date: Sun Jan 25 19:18:56 2009
User: Snowguy
Message:
You need Australia Day for that, dede? ;-)

Date: Sun Jan 25 19:56:50 2009
User: mrbuck
Message:
Can we talk about whether or not he goes to church? mrbuck

Date: Sun Jan 25 20:25:39 2009
User: dede
Message:
yes I do snow lol .kiss snow

Date: Sun Jan 25 20:30:30 2009
User: firenze
Message:
I did not notice the Last Person thread is gone. That says a lot about the moderating that is going to happen. It was an extremely harmless thread with none of the political or religious controversy that other threads may have had. Are the moderators going to delete a thread just because they personally do not like it or just plain got tired of it? Looks like it. In that case, to bloviate on not wanting to stifle freedon of speech is ludicrous and hypocritical. It appears any strong or strident opinion will not be allowed. It also appears that you will delete in silence without any explanation. So far, the guideline seems to be the capriciousness of the moderators. I am not naive. I realise that I am not one of the favorite posters at this site. If your looking for a quiet, dry, yes Mom and yes Dad, at the dinner table site, you are on the right track.

Date: Sun Jan 25 20:31:42 2009
User: peewee
Message:
Sounds like I missed some really hot conversation. No more politics and religion, so God bless you and vote early and often.

Date: Sun Jan 25 20:33:06 2009
User: StarGazer
Message:
My question is, will the moderators delete entire threads or can they just delete the offensive posts? SG

Date: Sun Jan 25 20:39:16 2009
User: Katzby
Message:
If they can do that, I'd vote for it, as long as they could also add, "Post deleted" or something to let the rest know why there might seem to be an unconnected response.

Date: Sun Jan 25 20:39:31 2009
User: Denny
Message:
They can delete individual posts. Let's meet halfway--light touch from the moderators and good manners from the posters. Wrt to moderation in general, most forums have it. This is a game site. I choose to encourage lighter topics here. There are a freakin' zillions sites on this here Internet for discussing other stuff. Go forth and enjoy those sites, but this site is for fun. Denny

Date: Sun Jan 25 20:42:56 2009
User: itdontmatta
Message:
oh my god..............no more cat fights.....maaaan that sucks